Popular Jack and Jennifer Observations Part1

Author	Comment
JacksGirl		#181	[url]	[-]
Posts: 909 07/12/07 11:44 PM Field Reporter Fan-Fiction Writer	JanBran-I'm not sure if I felt that Jennifer was enamored with Emilio or if I felt that she had "taken in another stray"to fix.I didn't like the possessiveness Emilio exhibited (IMO).I found him to be kinda pushy and overbearing,but I think alot of that had to do with him not wanting Jack to "win"as I said in a previous post.I felt that winning Jennifer's heart was more of a competition in Emilio's eyes. To me at first,even though we were still in the midst of "bad Jack",he tried valiantly to win her over.I'm not quite sure what he would have done with her had he managed to "win her",but it would have been interesting to see.I dont' think he really cared about her at first,as he said in 2006,but I think he was definitely intrigued with her. JG .
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Janbran18		#182	[url]	[-]
Posts: 84 07/13/07 12:14 AM Mail Room Worker	I totally agree that Jack and Emilio had great chemistry, too, just as Jack and Steve did. I could see Jack getting angry with Jenn, but back then they had more comic relief than true angst. It made the angstmas period all the more full of anguish.
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JacksGirl		#183	[url]	[-]
Posts: 909 07/13/07 12:27 AM Field Reporter Fan-Fiction Writer	JanBran-I definitely have to agree with you there.My big problem with the way the writers handled things,was that even though something might have clearly been Jennifer's fault,Jack was never "allowed"to be angry with her.He was never "supposed"to lash out at her,which didn't make sense.It was like everything always had to be Jack's fault,whether he was responsible or not. JG .
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IrlandesaK		#184	[url]	[-]
Posts: 13 07/13/07 2:05 AM Paper Boy	I love this thread. I've been wanting to reply to it for ages, especially since I've gone on a spurt of watching early J&J that I hadn't seen before. I wouldn't call what Jack did in the beginning as actively pursuing Jennifer. I think he became infatuated with her during the Baby Hannah story but I don't think he seriously considered dating her. Every time he considered making an overture, he ended up chickening out. He put more effort into preventing an Emilio and Jennifer reunion. Speaking of Emilio, I may have underestimated Billy Huffsey. Emilio was a drip of a character and BH never blew me away, but I had missed the gang story. I was surprised to see how absolutely hysterical he and Matt were together. I may even think his "I don't care if he's half an ass, he's still my favorite" about Bottom from the Midsommer story might be one of my favorite DOOL lines. It was like a sitcom for a while there and all three of their roles fit the story perfectly. Unfortunately for BH, his character didn't translate as well to the more dramatic aspects of a soap opera the way Matt managed to transition Jack. Along those lines, BH had more chemistry with Matt than Melissa. In fact, all of Jennifer's love interests had more chemistry with Matt than they did with MR. That was one of the biggest surprises I saw last year. All of the Jack and Frankie scenes had such a great energy to them that it made me regret that both of them would be leaving. Moving on---can you have a favorite rape scene? I don't know. I hate that they went that far with Jack. I think he was completely wrong. Steve and Kayla were wrong as well but I prefer to keep the rape and infidelity as two separate wrongs. That said, I give MBE, MA and TPTB a lot of credit for that scene. TPTB get some credit for letting MBE and MA have some freedom in how it was done. MBE and MA get the credit for everything else. I love how we saw what drove Jack. I love how he knew he had gone too far but was in denial about it. It was so realistic. And I loved the dialogue. Kayla: Steve and I never meant to hurt you. Jack: Yeah, and I never meant to rape my wife. That coming after Jack had denied it was rape. It was brilliant and smart writing. I loved Lawrence and Carly as a couple even if I hated how they messed with Jack and Jennifer's lives in their own way. I want Jack back and I don't want Jack back. I think he'd be great on the canvas and a Jenniferless Jack could revert a little back to being a somewhat darker character. (Maybe he could go back into politics which would increase interest in his past and lead to the rape reveal.) I even think I could have an easier time handling Jack in another relationship as long as Jennifer isn't on the show than I did when Jennifer dated other people. (Probably because it was Missy's choice to leave.) That's the Jack fan in me. But the J&J fan would worry about how they'd explain Jennifer's absence and I can't think of a truly good solution. Rewatching a lot of old scenes made me realize that Jack was quite a jerk even during his redemption period. In fact, he could be quite a bit of a jerk during the second run too. But it works on him and I love him for it. It helps maintain the character consistency of early Jack. I hated Mark Valley as Jack but as time went by, I discovered that I quite enjoyed him as an actor. It made me realize that the show had no interest in writing Jack for the complicated character he was. While Matt IS Jack to me, period...MV did have the chops to make Jack better than his version was. The writers/TPTB just never wanted him to. It's probably why they got rid of MA in the first place. (DOOL died for me in many ways in '93.) Like others, watching the clips makes me a little bit sad too. DOOL will never be that good again and yet I still yearn to see more Jack and Jennifer. Am I just a masochist?
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JacksGirl		#185	[url]	[-]
Posts: 909 07/13/07 2:37 AM Field Reporter Fan-Fiction Writer	Wow,very insightful post!Thank you for that. Like you,BH never really grabbed me,but he was a good actor.I think it was more Emilio that didn't do it for me.I found him to be a total brute and a drip.However,with that being said,his scenes with Matt were always fantastic,full of energy and chemistry.I loved the scenes where Jack was trying to teach Emilio about Shakespear,Jack's line was great:"Amazing how you identify with a character who is half an ass"lol. I think part of Jack's charm was that he could be a jerk,but he did it with such dry sarcasm and wit that it worked for him.The way Matt delivered those lines just made them even better.I remember not being able to help laughing at some of his "one liners". He didn't always actively persue Jennifer,but the intention,at least to me,was there.It was obvious how he felt about her in the way that he would sabotage the relationships she had/might have had with other men.Or the way he tried to bring her breakfast one morning to make up for something or other he had done the night before.I think it was equally obvious in the way he helped her to become a foster parent to baby Hannah and then proceeded to help Jennifer take care of the baby when she needed someone to be there. I think it is possible to have a favorite rape scene because I too loved the scene when he raped Kayla.I didn't like the rape itself,don't get me wrong.I just felt that it was fantastic acting for all parties involved.It was clear to me that the rape was not out of hate,but out of desperation and fear,which made it all that much more compelling.If you listen carefully to the dialogue during the rape,Jack keeps telling Kayla that he loves her.I always felt that Jack had been trying to "prove"to Kayla that he could be a man,that he could love her the way a man should love his wife ("I wanted to prove that I could make love").I too,loved how he felt guilty about it,knowing he had gone too far,but at the same time,he tried to justify his actions.The way he tried to touch her after it happend and the way she pulled away from him were very realistic. I think the only way I would want Jack back is if he got a better storyline (and Matt better treatment).I can see him coming back without Jennifer to help his brother.Or maybe come back because Jo's health is failing or something along those lines.I saw no point to him coming back in April,he wasn't tied to anything or anyone except Abby,and even then it wasn't really anything special.I'm not sure I would want him with anyone else at this point,because I can't see anyone else that he would be good with...except maybe Billie,but even that's a stretch.I think one way that they could explain Jennifer's absence is to do a storyline where Jennifer's insanity had finally started to set in or something like that,because the insanity suffered by Laura,Jennifer's mother,is hereditary.Maybe Jack could come back for a while to seek advice and support from someone in Salem who loves Jennifer as much as he does. Mark Valley as an actor is pretty good.I have to admit that.However,I couldn't stand him as Jack.To me he just didn't fit the role.Not only in the way he portrayed Jack,but physically.Were we to believe that Jack shrank and died his hair blond?It didn't make sense.I would have prefered it if they had chosen an actor who bared some sort of resemblance to Matt. JG .
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Janbran18		#186	[url]	[-]
Posts: 84 07/13/07 8:01 PM Mail Room Worker	IrlandesaK- Maybe pursuit was the wrong word then. I think in the beginning, "evil" Jack was still very much a part of his overall demeanor. He was a jerk, as you said. A lovable, sarcastic jerk, but a jerk all the same. It was through a combination of putting others before himself that he began to change. This included Steve, Kayla and Isabella. Eventually this came to be about Jennifer, too. Isabella actually gets Jack's number first. In one older scene I just watched, she talks about how easy it is for Jack to show he cares about her, because it is purely platonic. Because his feelings for Jennifer were something more, he didn't know how to treat her. He was like the little boy on the playground who would pull the pigtails of the girl he liked since he didn't know how to deal talk to.:) As for Emilio and Jack's chemistry, I took was taken aback at how well they played off of each and how many good scenes they had. In a way, it might have been nice if Emilio had stuck around and eventually him and Jack had to team up in some sort of way down the road, sans the Jennifer triangle. He was a hard character to fit into every day story lines though. After all, by that time, Emilio had moved on too, with Melissa. I love your "I want Jack back and I don't want Jack back." comment. The more I watch the old scenes, the more I wish this story line was still going on. But part of me knows that if Jack (and even Jenn) were still on the show, it wouldn't be the Jack and Jenn many of us had grown to love all those years ago. I also think they went to the point of no return in my book when Jack DID leave Jennifer after the Abby incident, something that everyone was afraid he would ultimately do. I think when the viewers fell in love with Jack along with Jennifer, we all wanted to believe that character had changed. To assume he would ultimately leave with no explanation like that erases so much of the progress Jack made, in my eyes. JacksGirl- That scene where Emilio learned Shakespeare was some great stuff. I also loved the role reversal when Jack dressed up in leather and Emilio donned a suit. If you think about it, those scenes must have been extra fun for Matt to play at the time. It really gave him a chance to show his diversity. Before the Jennifer story line, most of his dialogue was very heavy stuff. If the Jennifer story hadn't come along, we might never have seen this side, a side that was crucial to falling in love with Jack. I love how so many viewers have learned to analyze the rape scene in retrospect. I wonder though, what fans thought of it right while it happened. I don't think most people were thinking about seeing Jack's side back when it originally aired. Only after Jack showed he had another side did viewers start to analyze his motivation. That to me is a testament to some great writing, and a great actor. In reality, the writers might have had no immediate plans for redemption for the character of Jack. After all, every show needs a good villain. I like to think he played those scenes so well that they realized what they had in Matt and started writing for him, not the other way around.
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JacksGirl		#187	[url]	[-]
Posts: 909 07/13/07 8:18 PM Field Reporter Fan-Fiction Writer	JanBran-What can I say to your comments?You're in my head,lol.I too loved the scenes where there was a role reversal between Emilio and Jack.The thing that gets me the most is WHY each of them did it.Emilio thought that he wasnt' good enough for her and tried to "look"like Jack,where as Jack thought he wasn't good enough and tried to "look"like Emilio,each man thinking that that's what he had to do to impress Jennifer.I'm glad we had those scenes because it showed each man's motivation and insecurities (is it just me or did Jack look FANTASTIC dressed like that with sunglasses and roses in his hand?!).I think you're right though,we as fans,needed the Jennifer story in order to fall in love with Jack. On the other hand,in 1993,when the writers had Jack leave Jenn,they committed character suicide in my book,all in an effort to get rid of Matt.Thank god for us,it didn't work permanently.The character however,even though I love him to death,the character of Jack was never the same again after that.Neither was Jennifer. JG .
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IrlandesaK		#188	[url]	[-]
Posts: 13 07/14/07 3:16 AM Paper Boy	I think one way that they could explain Jennifer's absence is to do a storyline where Jennifer's insanity had finally started to set in or something like that,because the insanity suffered by Laura,Jennifer's mother,is hereditary. I thought about that one too but it's still a personally murky area for me. I'd want them to bring her out of it before DOOL is cancelled. Plus, I question whether or not Jack would get involved in another relationship if his wife was still alive, just not all there. I also want to clarify that MV never grew on me as Jack. It wasn't until I saw him in Keen Eddie that I was taken by how much personality I thought he had. That never came through in his Jack. In one older scene I just watched, she talks about how easy it is for Jack to show he cares about her, because it is purely platonic. Because his feelings for Jennifer were something more, he didn't know how to treat her. He was like the little boy on the playground who would pull the pigtails of the girl he liked since he didn't know how to deal talk to.:) We must be watching similar clips because I just saw that one last week. I love how so many viewers have learned to analyze the rape scene in retrospect. I wonder though, what fans thought of it right while it happened. I don't think most people were thinking about seeing Jack's side back when it originally aired. I don't know but I can't remember many rape scenarios that gave the rapist as much point of view as Jack got. And considering how many fans have stuck with EJ through the rape, I would think that, had the internet been around then, there would have been people willing to look at Jack's motives back then as well. For the most part, I do think he was rightly disliked for raping the show's heroine. Only after Jack showed he had another side did viewers start to analyze his motivation. That to me is a testament to some great writing, and a great actor. In reality, the writers might have had no immediate plans for redemption for the character of Jack. They had a redemption plan for Jack as soon as they introduced the character; he was Steve's brother and this was going to surely rock the foundation of a character whose esteem was so focused on being a Deveraux. The writers gave Jack one of the most important things a gray character can have...a plan. Even after the rape (which may not have been in the plans) the writers, and MA, set out to give the character layers. Even though he stayed a villain for a long time, those layers were part of the redemption that made him a viable character, if not a hero quite yet. I do believe the unexpected spark between Matt and Missy helped contribute to the continual softening of Jack. After watching the early J&J clips, I noticed that Jack was constantly wheeling, dealing and scheming to cause trouble for Steve and Kayla. As the J&J got into high gear, we saw less of that. That's one of the biggest issues I have with EJ Wells. Sadly, too many of my favorite soap males have rape in their past so I could learn to get past that. My issue is that they don't really seem to have a plan for him. On the other hand,in 1993,when the writers had Jack leave Jenn,they committed character suicide in my book,all in an effort to get rid of Matt.Thank god for us,it didn't work permanently.The character however,even though I love him to death,the character of Jack was never the same again after that.Neither was Jennifer. To be fair, no characters were ever really the same under JER. Here's another unpopular opinion: I'll always be bitter that Matt was fired but the way Jack left in '93 rang true for me. I didn't like it but I think having Jack lose his money/status/elitism was a bigger blow to the character because it altered some of the fundamental make-up of the character. Leaving out of guilt was frustratingly in character. I like Sheffer's characterization of many of the vets so I think both Jack and Jennifer would be written better than they have been in a long time. And Sheffer has written vintage Jack-like characters well before, but I wouldn't want Jack to revert all the way back to that kind of character.
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JacksGirl		#189	[url]	[-]
Posts: 909 07/14/07 10:05 AM Field Reporter Fan-Fiction Writer	I'd want her to come out of it before the end of Days too,but I thought it would make a great story that Matt and Missy could really "sink their teeth into".If written right,it could be a very powerful story. Mark Valley is a good actor.I have no problem with him in that aspect,what I did have a problem with,is that he just didn't fit as Jack.The role wasn't him. I'm glad that Jack got the point of view he did during the rape storyline.I always felt like that was the "first layer",and Matt just built on Jack from there.I loved how the writers made you see Jack's motivation.The rape wasn't out of hate,but desperation. I absolutely agree that Jack continued to soften through the J&J story.Thats' what it served for at first.After that I just feel like the writers may have thought they struck gold,so they continued on with it.To me it gave us one of the best love stories on daytime television. JG .
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Janbran18		#190	[url]	[-]
Posts: 84 07/14/07 10:33 AM Mail Room Worker	JacksGirl- Matt totally looked great with the slicked back hair and leather. I know they put him in a lot of disguises over the years, but it would have been fun if he had dressed down more for one reason or another. One thing I did notice from watching some earlier clips was that the character of Jack apparently USED to wear jeans, or at least in the few clips I watched so far. He also had more of a macho image or at least one of a man to be feared. He was a bar fight in the one scene and he pulled a fast one on that man who broke into his house that time. Watching it in retrospect makes me laugh since they seemed to forget about that side of Jack as they made him a kinder soul. I guess that's an inconsistency worth mentioning. Even if he softened up when Jennifer came into his life, he wouldn't have forgotten how to hold his own in a fight, right? I do like to believe that the story of J&J was a fluke pairing that evolved into something bigger and bigger the more they saw viewers liked it. Watching the old clips now I'm amazed at how much chemistry these two had without all the traditional love scenes. They generated a lot of heat just by banter and longing looks. That's not as easy as it sounds. IrlandesaK- We probably are watching similar clips. I was in the Great Bayview Escape thread, though if I'm being honest, I never much cared for the meat of that storyline with Isabella, Marina and the pages..I just liked Jack's involvement:) I think the whole story of Jack and Jennifer would have taken on a different dimension had it occurred during the internet age. I also venture a guess to say that it would have been harder to write them into the ground as more fans would have had a forum to be vocal about it. I didn't watch the early scenes yet of Jack's introduction. Did the writers know before the character came on to the canvas that Jack would be Steve's brother? I honestly didn't know. It also would have been easy for him to have found redemption through the love of Melissa, but I like how they stuck it out and made that love one sided. It just made it all the harder for society to trust that Jack had truly changed once he met Jennifer.
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